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 Post subject: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#1  PostPosted: 30 Apr 2009 14:15 
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Looking for a job?

Small advice for our Russian women and their husbands for that matter!


I've been both job hunting and recruiting people during my working life and my perverse thought in the current climate is that I think you need to be much more selective and targeted when looking for a job.

A lot of the following you can probably grab off the job boards but read & digest.

I'll list some common things first and then some specifics

- Does your wife clearly states on the top of her “Resume” (I deliberately call it that *not* a CV) about what she wants to do, including status/position?

- Does she simply list all of her jobs in chronological order?

Imagine you're a recruiter and you advertise a job with your company. You'll get 40 - 50 even more applications all in roughly the same format. Her application needs to stand out in the crowd. Instead of listing your previous jobs, simply have 5 or so bullets of key achievements in her life and work. Each with a short snappy paragraph saying what she achieved; how she did it; why it was special and what the impact was (should be easy e.g for an accountant - saved $xxxx ;-) ) Do it right and these will illustrate her motivation and key skills

- The top 2 points should cover the 1st page

- Then just bullet her employment history with dates, job title and a one liner regarding responsibilities

- Education, again bullet point qualification and where obtained

- Boring comment: Your “Resume” must not be more than 2 sides A4. I can fit 25 years onto 2 sides using this format

- The first page is the one which sells yourself/wife, the second backs it up and if her employment history is solid and her roles interesting/relevant then these give something to talk about at the interview

- Don't splurge out everything in the resume - you'll have nothing to talk about at interview!

- Delivering a “Resume” by hand is a good idea. But don't drop it off at the office reception. Phone first and find out who is responsible for recruitment. Then go and ask to see the person - just for 2 minutes. If it's an absolute cold call, *you only want 2 minutes*, and then explain to the recruiting officer that you are researching the (whatever field) job market in the area and you would appreciate their help in your research.

Do ask: What's the current climate like for this kind of job in the area?

Who's recruiting?

Who's not recruiting?

What skills/experience would make someone attractive in the area?

Thank you very much for your time, here's a copy of my resume. I know you don't have anything for me at the moment but I would appreciate it if you could look at it and if you feel inclined and have the time to help me you can email me some comments on it. [wink.gif]

Walk away with a smile. :D Only take this approach with companies which match what you are looking for!

Some specifics

- How good is wife's English?

If it is good enough, she should write her Resume herself. Spell check it by all means and cover any literary howlers - but it should be in her own words and allow her character to come through. Otherwise any interview is likely to be quite short.

- Personally I'd remove any reference to her nationality for the moment. If she's in the UK and able to legally work, it is irrelevant (on many job boards she's probably had to tick a box regarding work permit etc - these are screened upon by recruiters!)

- Remove any reference to age

- Work out how far she could travel and how – Are you in a reasonably good spot to have a good catchments area?

- Don't undersell her, if she was in a senior position in Russia, then go for something similar, or one level down, here.

- Word of mouth is great, she/you can use your contacts in your current work to try and develop a network of people to help promote her.

There are a few newspapers available in London which cater for the Russian community.

Lots of job adverts etc. It’s worth trying to get hold of a few just for a read and to find someone for your wife to talk to about the situation.

Finally whenever she is invited for an interview make sure her dress code is not the same as going to a party or going for a walk in the country.

A smart conservative attire is preferable and advisable.

She doesn’t want to distract the male interviewer [wink.gif] or make jealous a female one! [happy.gif]

Hope this helps. Good luck in your search for a job.

wiz
[biggrin.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#2  PostPosted: 25 Feb 2011 22:05 
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wiz wrote:
Looking for a job?

Small advice for our Russian women and their husbands for that matter!


I've been both job hunting and recruiting people during my working life and my perverse thought in the current climate is that I think you need to be much more selective and targeted when looking for a job.

A lot of the following you can probably grab off the job boards but read & digest.

I'll list some common things first and then some specifics

- Does your wife clearly states on the top of her “Resume” (I deliberately call it that *not* a CV) about what she wants to do, including status/position?

wiz
:D

Resume is the American name for a CV, when applying for jobs in the UK it should always be refered to as a CV so that there will be no confusion.

If all of your spouses previous jobs and qualifications were in there home country then it will be fairly obvious where they come from.

Free Russian newspapers are OK in London, but what about the rest of the country? One way to find work is to find an agency run by Poles which tend to favour foreign workers or try and find some other people of your wife's nationalty who may help her to find work.

Otherwise you made some good points. [biggrin.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#3  PostPosted: 26 Feb 2011 01:49 
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Wiz,

This is one important topics for me as Natasha has a pretty good job with one of the top global companies in Moscow, but in my village of 2.8 million (as she calls it), the job climate is rough so I have been telling her for months that getting a good job will not be easy (something about lowering the expectations to a realistic level). Anyways, when she gets her I'll keep my fingers crossed as I know a good job will help her in adapting to the country so I'm hoping her prior work history with International companies will make up for the fact that nobody local will probably have heard of Moscow Humanities University or the American Institute of Economics and Business (Moscow) where she got her MBA.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#4  PostPosted: 26 Feb 2011 08:29 
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AngloUkrainian wrote:
Resume is the American name for a CV, when applying for jobs in the UK it should always be refered to as a CV so that there will be no confusion. If all of your spouses previous jobs and qualifications were in there home country then it will be fairly obvious where they come from. Free Russian newspapers are OK in London, but what about the rest of the country? One way to find work is to find an agency run by Poles which tend to favour foreign workers or try and find some other people of your wife's nationalty who may help her to find work. Otherwise you made some good points. [biggrin.gif]
AU

I am sure you are aware that I said earlier in the post "I deliberate called Resume"..... because I wanted to attract the employer's or recruiter's eye! [wink.gif]

When I wrote the article above, was long time ago, and spent sometime polishing it, in trying to remember from my past working life and running my own company, what I was looking for at the time and what helped me to choose the right candidates to work for my company.

  • Every time I used to advertise a position, I was swamped with applications so I had to follow certain lines to eliminate the unsuitable candidates. No, I did not used the system of my old college tutor who will throw all the exam paper from a hight on the table and anybody's papers that went on the floor....... did not passed! [surprised.gif] . [bad.gif]

  • Bearing in mind the size of my company, (10-12 persons max here and abroad) and the need to avoid, as humanly as possible, possible reasons for my employee not to be late or absent from work..... I had to scan quickly all the applications and eliminate all those with over 30 minutes possible travelling time.

  • Having deliberately chosen not to alter my accent in my speech, I was acutely aware of the fact that British people, while in the UK, their ear is on automatic pilot...... recognising ONLY English accents and have problems listening to foreign accents, therefore as most of our business was on telephone sale, the employee had to have a clear English accent. So any indication in their CV (Curriculum Vitae) "Resume" not in line with the above........was eliminated. Don't get me wrong about the Brits having a problem listening a foreign accent in the UK as when they go abroad.......then they do pay attention and do understand the foreign accent speaking person. I am sure Vinnvinny and other Brits will dispute that but that is my experience. [wink.gif]

    Living in Greece and then travelling through Europe with my first English wife, I had no problem communicating fluently with her...... but I vividly remember the first time we arrived at Dover and started driving towards Hastings. All of a sudden my ex wife will say "pardon"..... meaning she did not understand what I said..... and by the time we arrived home in Hastings, I was well pissed off with the situation. [sad.gif]

    Well over the years I have seen it happening, time after time.....
  • Once I finished that elimination process..... I was left with a smaller number to pay attention to details, education, experience etc. Then a quick phone call to invite them for an interview and I knew who had a clear accent and pleasant telephone manner and disposition. I had some training and paid for it, when I arrived in the UK.........from
    British Caledonian (remember that airline?) so I still can recognise all above attributes to somebody's personality over the phone! [biggrin.gif]. You typical secretive Ukrainian.... will fall off the list ...... [tonque.gif] [rolfsmall.gif]

    Let me give you and anybody else a small advise, if you want to present your self on the phone as a pleasant person and give good impression to the caller.

    Let the phone ring at least 2-3 times before picking up the receiver. Meanhile take a deep breath and start grinnining or smilling and then answer the phone, with a "hello" in a happy and slightly higher volume voice and watch the reaction on the other end! Everybody stutters... before starting talking to you because they all expect a simple on serious tone, "Yes". Round one won and you have the upper hand on the conversation. [lol.gif]

    Remember: Smiling is contagious! [cheer.gif]

    I think the rest on my list about Education, history etc it's very clear.

Of course there are many sources to find work and that not only include the Russian local paper but also all other media avenues available in each country including Employment agencies.

OK I will stop here and comeback later with some more comments about RW work expectations. [wave.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#5  PostPosted: 27 Feb 2011 13:51 
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What are yours and her expectations about jobs?

Russian women (mostly), especially the young ones, are very well educated, probably with a University degree and that is the type of women most Western men are looking for.

Many of them have already good positions in their country but in general, apart from those living in Moscow and St Petersburg are not well paid and do struggle to make ends me. This of course is not 100% true too because there are several well off families supporting their children and Cheesy looks that he had good luck finding good tourist guides who could afford to drive him around in their cars. [surprised.gif] [biggrin.gif]

When these women meet a Western man, obviously are looking for someone who apart from his good looks and willingness to travel to meet her, will be able to support them and probably the family, financially during the period of adjustment in the new country.

Oh yes don't make a mistake and think that you are hopefully will be getting married to a Smoking hot kova and rescue her from her miserable existence and shit-hole place (to use Donhollio's favourite word) but like it or not also her parents and family too. What you need to know is that the Russian families are very close and supportive to each other and Russian women, your future wife, always will be thinking about them and feel guilty for leaving them behind without their support......... [wink.gif]

If you are looking for happy and succesful relationship with your future wife then you should take that into consideration and include support for her parents in your financial plans. [biggrin.gif] After all if you can't afford to send back home £200 - $300 a month then you will be not be a well thought off and carry not a lot of respect if you can't be that strong man in her eyes. [wink.gif]

Having said that Russian women and I mean most FSU women, are hard workers and will do the best they can to help and support their family and husbands once they come over here. Of course it is down to you to prepare her for her new life in the new country.

Here I will interject the words from an American fellow from another place to give some better idea of what it's expected from you posted here: viewtopic.php?p=22#p22

Unreasonable expectations
Quote:
Unreasonable expectations of life together in a new culture can lead to some interesting and possibly devastating consequences. The ability to prepare a Russian lady for changes in lifestyle hinges on the man's honest portrayal of his true situation in life. Yet, even with full disclosure there is a good chance that some unreasonable expectations will linger in the mind of a Russian lady until she has experienced the new culture first hand. More than likely, your lady will not be the only person with unreasonable expectations. Western men usually hold some unrealistic opinions as well.

America and the Western world are not really similar to what is portrayed in most movies and television programs. Unfortunately, the media is where most Russian women get their opinions about life in the west. It's unavoidable, but true.
One of the biggest mistakes that Russian women make it's not to think carefully the consequences of their move to the west and their ability to adjust quickly here. Many of them hardly speak elementary English and think that very quickly they will be able to speak fluent or very good English after they arrive here. The truth of the matter is that if your age is over 20 years old, you will definitely struggle for very long time to improve your ability to speak the language and more importantly women over 35 for sure they will need a period of 2-3 years to study and improve their English to a good standard that will make them feel comfortable.

Some of these ladies also think just because they had a good paid job in the FSU, especially those from Moscow that also speak good English that by coming to the west and I am talking about the circumstances in the UK, they will have no problem finding a job at the same level as in Russia, which is wrong!

Sorry to disappoint you but local employers if they have to choose between a local person and a Russian lady of the same educational level, for sure they will opt for the local person, because of the language and makes no difference how well you speak English. Many or most of them will discriminate against you because of that, not permitted by law in the UK but........ they can choose whoever they like to work for them! FACT.

So in my view it is very important to make every effort to improve your English to a very good standard to improve your chances in getting a job soon.

My friend Moby called me a Cave man because I was pressurising my wife to learn English by studying and watching ONLY English TV and cutting down the time that she spoke Russian, to help her progress and the fact is that Hanna does speak good English but not good enough to try and get a job as a Teacher of Mathematics, in a secondary school. To be able to do that she must take an IELTS test and achieve level 9 + but last time, nearly 2 years ago, she took a test at Guildford University she achieved level 6 and I expect by now she is around 8 Level but still not good enough to become a teacher of Mathematics.

We have recognised officially her Bachelors Degree in Maths, but she still has to go through training that takes between to 2-3 year before becoming a qualified teacher. Salaries for Qualified new teachers start at around £22K, so early we analysed the situation and made a decision that she has to lower her standard and try to find a lower type of Job. Then I came across a vacancy for a centre for children with Learning disabilities, she applied and got the job, the centre is only 15 minutes walking distance from our house. Taking into consideration Travelling and other expenses that she doesn't have to pay now, it appears that she is paid well enough to be comparable job to a young qualified teacher and her previous experience was appreciated. She is a permanent staff and has been working there for over a year and a half.

On Friday she came home showing me one of these training diplomas for her job and it transpires that out of 8 trainees that took the course in the past 6 months, Hanna was the only one that passed with flying colours, the other's have to retake the tests again.

I am sure you do realise the boost in her confidence that her achievement gave her. [veryhappy.gif]

I suggest that when you are making plans with your lady try make her to understand that it is important first to learn very good English to boost her confidence and also to realise the facts and lower her expectations, if she wants to be able to find a job quickly.

I remember talking on Real Russia to a lady who was University educated and she started working as a cleaner and then in a couple of years managed to get a very good paid job in the advertising business. She told us that she was proud to work as a cleaner making her living and then to move up the ladder.

The fact of the matter is, as that American chap said:
Quote:
It becomes easy to understand why problems might arise given the disparity between reality and expectations.

Don't make the mistake that because Russian women are sophisticated and intelligent, that they are somehow cold and independent. Expect civility, nor servility. Expect feminine, not feminist. With all their strength, they are still women who want a strong man to lead and protect them. But, they want that leadership in the form of compassion and example, not an iron fist.

[happy.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#6  PostPosted: 05 Mar 2011 22:46 
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Quote:
Don't make the mistake that because Russian women are sophisticated and intelligent, that they are somehow cold and independent. Expect civility, nor servility. Expect feminine, not feminist. With all their strength, they are still women who want a strong man to lead and protect them. But, they want that leadership in the form of compassion and example, not an iron fist.


In my opinion those are wise words indeed . . . Although a little rough around the edges, I like to think I am a 'gentleman' and my expectations and actions would be as described above.

So let me please make a comment.

I know the UK and the job application process. I am a well qualified mid-50yr old graduate engineer working mainly in the pharmaceutical manufacturing field. It is a cut-thoat business and only the best survive. I've managed long enough however, I have seen good times and hard times and redundancies but I have a good CV/Resume . . . . I have never been out of work for long.

Consider this . . . what is the process if an foreigner wanted to re-locate to russia?

I think probably the same rules would apply, a working knowledge of the Russian language, an understanding of the differing cultures, a lowering of initial expectations . . . and I suspect all the other problems of being a foreign worker in in an alien country.

Anyone with first hand experiences of the job application process in Russia they would care to share . . . ?

Just a thought . . . I am open to any comments. It is a two way thing, it is not all about bringing the lady to your own country . . . is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#7  PostPosted: 06 Mar 2011 23:47 
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With all the cleaning these newbie brides allegedly have to do I'm surprised that they can find time for a job. [read.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#8  PostPosted: 09 Mar 2011 04:49 
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Vinnvinny wrote:
With all the cleaning these newbie brides allegedly have to do I'm surprised that they can find time for a job. [read.gif]


Yes, and don't forget it's the "doing everything" mentality of Russian men that they want to avoid. So cleaning our homes, looking for work, and taking care of the kids will leave many wondering why they left mother Russia. Granted, I hope in the above instances we all help more than a little to make them realize it's not a bad trade. [thumbs.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#9  PostPosted: 12 Mar 2011 07:12 
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Vinnvinny wrote:
With all the cleaning these newbie brides allegedly have to do I'm surprised that they can find time for a job. [read.gif]


Are you implying that if you can't afford to take care of your RW to be a stay at home wife then why bother?

Do you think FSU women are not capable of doing something more with their time than cleaning the house?


Andrew

Sorry but I have no experience in that field to answer your questions. [embarrased.gif]

I was hoping Mel, 59dotru will be able to answer some of your questions....... but he obviously has not been around lately.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for a job?
Post Number:#10  PostPosted: 12 Mar 2011 09:29 
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wiz wrote:
Are you implying that if you can't afford to take care of your RW to be a stay at home wife then why bother?

Lena is a "stay at home wife" at the moment, because she needs to care for our son Daniël.
She is becoming mightily bored lately and we do have some discussions now as her frustration grows.

Luckily, summer is approaching fast and thus she can go to her ex-home (as she calls it) soon and have some relaxation with Mama!

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