Julian wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
So are we saying that Russia isn't corrupt?
I think the article is pretty well balanced and tells the truth.
I think those that try to portray the UK as being corrupt as Russia are either Russians or clinically insane.
Get a grip for goodness sake.
![rolleyes [rolleyes.gif]](./images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Sorry Malcolm but if you think the article is balanced and tells the truth then it shows that you realy need to spend more time in Russia to understand her , maybe your opinions are based on watching movies, reading BS on internet and talking down the pub with your mates, have you lived and worked in Russia ?, do you know really how life is there or is everything you know based on preconception ?? Its articles like this that fuel peolpe like you to just write negative things about Russia, you don't think the world is full of corruption ? every city, every business has somebody trying to take money from it, wherever you are - go and live in Manchester and open a business there and tell me thats not corrupt and everything is perfect in the UK. The fact is most people in the west have no idea and cannot understand and appreciate how the Russian system works, everything there is so different to here, if you know how to play the system i'm sure its very good to make business there, otherewise Moscow would not be one of the biggest and most expensive and richest citys in the world.
Where ever i go on holiday Russians seems to out number other nations, why is this, they seem to be the ones with the money, i think things are better in Russia than they are here, maybe they have it right and its us who is wrong. I was in Thailand in January for 2 weeks with Russian friends who have good business's, it was full of Russian tourist, not once did any of them complain about corruption or business problems, again in June i stayed in a 5 star resort with many wealthy Russian business people, my wife was talking with many and again nobody spoke of problems. They would appear to be content. My wife is chief accountant for a big company in her town who also have an office in Moscow, i asked her yesterday about Krysha, she said 10 years ago it was a problem but nothing now in her town, the Police have it under control and certainly there is no mafia in this town anymore.
No way have 1.25 million Russians left because of corruption in the last 3 years, what i load of tripe, if they can't play the system they know then what chance of business success have they in a foreign land ??? all developed countries are full of Beaurocracy and i'm sure my American friends will confirm that the USA is just as bad as Russia for paperwork and in the UK we cannot move without being spied on and taxed !!! Malcolm get a grip son, your cacooned in a dream world, this country of ours is full of crime just like Russia. For sure some Russians will have left to get better paid jobs, for example i know that my wife who is very highly qualified in Russia as an accountant can earn 10 times more in Moscow than her home town and probably double that again if she could do the same job in the UK, so people will move if they have possibilty to ain better life, how many thousands have left this country to work abroad and getter better jobs ???, it not because of corruption.
I have lived in Russia for many months over the last 5 years, granted i have not lived in Moscow, but the small industrial town where my wife lives i have never seen any problems with crime, no evidence whatsoever of Mafia and really its nothing like what i percieved before i went to Russia. My opinion has changed a lot over the last 5 years, now i start to understand some things there i realise its not such a terrible place, granted i would not live there but no way is it as bad as some people would have you believe.
As many know i have had several visa issues whilst in Russia and been facing quite large problems, only once have i managed to bribe my way out of a situation and it was way harder than you could imagine and done in a very secretive way, the help was not volunteered by my wife or friends, i had to push the issue to make it happen and my wife was reluctant but she knew that i was in quite a tricky situation and even then i only gave 1000 rubles as a sweetner to get my visa registered and a small error overseen, for this reason i get the impression that its not as common practice as we all think and obviuosly anybody getting caught excepting a bribe would be in serious trouble and risk loosing their job. Of course i am only talking about this one town, maybe somebody can tell me that in their town in Russia corruption is rife.
I feel that the reputation of Russia needs to change, we should cut them some slack and not base all our opinions on the past, of course they need to do a lot more to give the west confidence and to encourage people there or do they ? do they really need or want us there ?? i don't think so, if they where desperate for money and our business they would do more to make it easy, they are clever people - they obviously know how to get money when they need it, i think it is Russia who laughs at us. Maybe we think that Russia needs us more than we need them.
Julian
For your information, "son", I've been to Russia many times and my wife is Russian. I live in her flat in Moscow, with her mother, whenever I go there and I can tell you that I've seen the effects of corruption and the way it works at close quarters. So please don't try to talk down to me.
I never said that there is no corruption in the UK or the USA or anywhere else. It's just that in Russia it is endemic. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in Russia knows what goes on but they've learnt how to deal with it, just as they learnt how to deal with the problems of living in the Soviet Union, instead of challenging it (no easy task I grant you).
If Russia wants the rest of the world to cut some slack, it must begin by dealing with the problem itself, but I see no attempt being made by anyone. Putin mumbled a few words abut dealing with corruption when he became President as did Medvedev but the sum total of their combined afforts has been zero, nada.
There is a huge divide between the very smal minority of wealthy Russians and the rest. These are the ones you see on holiday around the world. They consist of a few thousand families at most but their combined wealth is staggering. The middle class, which is a vital component of a democratic society, is tiny by comparison with Europe and the USA.
Until the wealth is more evenly spread, there is no chance of any progress as far as corruption is concerned because for many people, it's the only way they can make any money. Things won't change because there is simply no political will to do so.
The rule of law in Russia is almost non-existant for ordinary Russians, there is simply no recourse to justice at any level without huge amounts of money changing hands.
Be under no illusion, Russia may be an extraordinarily wealthy nation in terms of natural resources but since the demise of the USSR nothing much has changed for the vast majority of the population. Their healthcare system-which used to be free and pretty good, is now in a state of chaos, their education system is failing and universities are no longer free, there is very little social welfare and the wages for most people are not far from subsistence level.
Yes, we have huge problems in the UK, no-one would deny it, but in comparison, we have a far better life, as do the Americans, even though both nations are mired in debt.
There is no doubt that many young Russians see that the only way out of their predicament is to leave, and that's just what they're doing. There are thousands of them in London, living, working, going to University, enjoying a far better way of life. The one thing they appear to have in common when you talk to them is that they never stop being Russian and they love their country. Something a lot of British people seem to have lost.
But that's a different debate.